One of the most compelling aspects of directors Brendan Canty and Christoph Green’s ongoing Burn to Shine documentary film series is that the project is filled with all kinds of room for interpretation. Canty and Green head out to new cities, round-up the most noteworthy bands that are distinctive to that city, find a house or a building that’s about to be demolished and record these bands playing a song at the location. Why? Well, that’s up to you to figure out. Sure these films document a valuable and fleeting music scene, but the very M.O. of seeking out such damned locations provokes all kinds of conversations not only about the nature of urban growth, gentrification et. al.; but also about the nature of the music scene. When Canty and Green came to Atlanta to film the sixth installment of the series they found a house at 54 Moreland Avenue. It was one of six houses standing lonely in the shadow of the looming Edgewood Shopping District, complete with big box stores, like Target, Barnes & Noble and Lowes, all butting heads with the sagging roofs, poverty and depression of the neighborhood that will soon be wiped away in favor of condominiums or some other eyesores that city planners so often describe as “mixed-use living and shopping experiences.”
Each installment of Burn to Shine documents a scene of interconnected bands and friends, who all have something in common, or so it would seem. Atlanta has long suffered from an identity crisis. Its streets are as tangled and confusing as the writing in a William Faulkner novel, and the bands selected for ATL’s Burn to Shine are equally as incongruent. But therein lies a key aspect of Atlanta’s true personality. Shortly after their respective performances I tracked down most of the members of Deerhunter and a few of the Black Lips in an alley behind the house to talk about this a little more.

Dry Ink: Have you seen any of the other episodes of Burn to Shine?

Moses Archuleta: No. I’ve only seen the cases at Videodrome.

Bradford Cox: [Bradford begins to say something but is overcome with a look of fear as his plastic lawn chair tips over backwards. He shouts “shit” as he flails his arms and falls over backwards. Lockett Pundt, who is sitting beside Bradford, tries to grab the chair, but he is too late. Bradford is down.

Bradford: Thank you Lockett. That’s the second time you tried to save my life this week.

DI: When was the first time he tried to save your life?

Bradford: When someone put a gun to my head at Lenny’s the other night, but let’s not talk about that.

DI: Okay. I read your interview with Stephen Malkmus for Pitchfork.

Bradford: What did you think?

DI: I liked it. I like how you turned it around on him.

Bradford: I didn’t mean to turn it around on him. He’s cool. I read in a couple of places where people thought I was being narcissistic by asking him a bunch of gay questions. But hey, when you get a chance to talk with Steve Malkmus you can ask him whatever you want to ask him.

DI: I liked the questions because that kind of early ‘90s indie rock is so stripped of any and all sexuality. There are lot’s of manly emotions there, but no sex. I wouldn’t call it androgynous, but…

Bradford: I think androgyny is sexy. Are you homophobic, Chad?

DI: No.

Bradford: Do you have a problem with androgyny?

DI: I don’t think so… No I wouldn’t say that I have a problem with it.

Bradford: Would you say it’s not a problem for you?

DI: No, I think I’m pretty manly. Do you think I’m androgynous?

Bradford: Fuck no! A lot of people think that I am. A lot of people think that I am a woman.

Moses: Especially at drive-thrus. When they finish the order they always say ‘will that be all ma’am?’

Bradford: And then I say ‘but no, I’m a boy..!’ People have reviewed our shows and thought that I was a woman because I was wearing a wig.

DI: And a dress…

Bradford: The dress might have had something to do with it, but I’ve stopped wearing dresses.

DI: I noticed that you didn’t wear one today. Why is that?

Bradford: I just did it to have fun, but it became boring. It felt good, but I saw a couple of pictures on Flickr of my taliwacker. I was perched on a drum and my stuff was just fully hanging out. Cock and balls, but it looked really big in the picture, so I was happy. Actually it looked huge. It looked like I had a hard-on.

DI: Did you?

Bradford: No. I never get a hard-on on-stage. It’s impossible. Plus I don’t even get hard-ons anymore. I can’t cum.

DI: Why not?

Bradford: Medication.

DI: What kind of medication do you take?

Bradford: That would be personal information, Chad. Don’t you think?

DI: Yes, I suppose, but you’re the one who brought up your gigantic cock and balls.

Bradford: Lexipro, Atavan, Zanex, alcohol, weed, Hydrocodone, shrimp and women and boys of legal age.

DI: How many bands did you see perform today?

Bradford: I saw two bands, counting ours… I just saw the Black Lips and before them I saw a band, called the Deerhunters. They were very pretentious and self-important. A bunch of pill-popping Pitchfork premadonnas… The Deerhunters, that is.

Collin: We have to give proper credit for that phrase, though…

Bradford: No we don’t, Collin… You and your fucking mouth. You brought it up, so you tell the story.

Collin: The issue is resolved.

DI: Collin, are you drunk?

Collin: That’s irrelevant.

DI: You told me before the interview that you wanted to get drunk before you have to leave for work today…

Collin: That’s still a few hours away and it’s of no concern to anyone.

Moses: Hey Collin, do you want to see “The Simpsons Movie?”

Bradford: I want to see Bart’s dick!

Moses: I hear that it’s not true, you don’t get to see it.

Bradford: I heard that it’s absolutely true!

Collin: I want to see it about as badly as I’ve wanted to see a “Simpsons” episode from the last 10 years, which is not at all. “The Simpsons” should stop. Cease and Desist.

Bradford: Give me the recorder! This is Bradford Cox reporting for Dry Ink Magazine. [Bradford walks into the crowd that is surrounding the house where Burn To Shine is being filmed. Inside, the Carbonas are playing very loudly].

Bradford: Hey has anyone seen Jared Swilley [of the Black Lips]? I’m being interviewed for this magazine… Hey you [he finds Jared], you have seen “The Simpsons Movie,” right?

Jared: Yeah, I saw it. It sucks.

Bradford: I’ve heard reports from reputable sources, like The New York Times, that there is a scene where you see Bart’s taliwacker…

Jared: Yeah, but it’s just a flash and it just looks like an oval…

Bradford: But you do see penis?

Jared: Yeah, nuts too.

Bradford: Really! Is it big?

Jared: No, it’s tiny. He’s just a little boy!

Bradford: But you do see it?

Jared: Yeah, it’s there.

Bradford: So technically “The Simpsons” could be considered child pornography?

Jared: Well, I don’t think so, because you just see a shape, and there’s no head.

Bradford: Well, maybe Bart is uncircumcised…

Jared: [Jared takes long pause to consider the question] Do you think?

Bradford: I love you. Do you want to go bowling tonight?

Jared: Yeah, sure.

Bradford: Okay we’re going at midnight. I asked Calvin Johnson if he wants to come too, but he doesn’t want to go.

Calvin: [Calvin is standing with Jared]: No, that’s not what I said. You’re putting words in my mouth. I said I do want to go…

Bradford: This is Bradford Cox reporting from the set of Burn to Shine ATL with Jared Swilley and Calvin Johnson. Now I’m walking back over to the campsite… Hey Chad, I interviewed Jared and Calvin for you and there is some good stuff on there.

DI: What did they have to say?

Bradford: Listen to the interview and you will find out. But they say that you do see Bart Simpson’s dick. He might be uncircumcised.

Moses: I hear that it looks like a French fry.

Collin: That would be un-American.

DI: Allright. Hey, let’s talk about Burn to Shine for a few minutes.

Bradford: Always with the Burn To Shine… Okay.

Bradford: I have one request. If you’re going to use this interview I want it to be the entire content, except for what I say is off-the-record. I want it to be uncut.

DI: Like Bart Simpson may or may not be?

Moses: I haven’t seen the other Burn to Shine DVDs so I could be totally wrong about this, but of the other ones, I get the impression that all of the other bands really know each other. And it documents this thing, and it’s a scene, which is cool. And this is very cool today, but I sort of feel like half of these people don’t know the other half. But we are all here because we all live in Atlanta…

Bradford: I have a question for you. Who do you think would win in a three-way poker game between me, Lockett and Steve Albini?

DI: I don’t know, but what’s interesting about what Moses just brought up is that yes, it does seem like there is a scene when you think about the Chicago episode of Burn to Shine. You see Tortoise and Shellac and so on. These are all distinctively Chicago bands and you do get a sense that there is a relationship between these bands.

Moses: Yes. And someone told me that the guy who did the Portland one just made a few calls and got it together really quickly, because everyone knew each other. I feel like this one took a lot more time and energy to get together.

Bradford: It’s because Cat Power pussied out. Ha ha Get it?

DI: I get it.

Bradford: I want to use this as an opportunity to challenge Steve Albini to a heads-up poker tournament. I will whip your ass, Albini. Actually, he would probably kick my ass, but then we would pay him to record our next album. We considered doing that…

Moses: I think that’s just my understanding of the situation, and admittedly I haven’t seen the others.

DI: Do you feel like you guys have a relationship with most of the other bands here today?

Collin: I’ve met most of them, at least.

Bradford: I love you Chad, but I don’t really want to go there, at least not on record. It would just make me sound like a jerk.

Moses: I think that everyone in this town feels a little bit disconnected.

Bradford: There is a complete lack of hip-hop represented here.

DI: They tried.

Moses: I heard they tried to get MF Doom and Cee-Lo and OutKast… But since it was a non-paying thing…

Collin: Hip-hop is all about money.

Bradford: I don’t agree. I think it’s about understanding and connectedness.

DI: I kind of agree with Collin. There is some really great hip-hop here in town, but by and large I have always thought of the Southern hip-hop culture as being very much like a bunch of people who want to be like Ayn Rand, but have probably never heard of Ayn Rand.

Bradford: Man, fuck Ayn Rand.

DI: Yes…

Bradford: I lust like the rhythms and the rhymes. I don’t agree with a lot of it… It’s sexist and racist and homophobic, but I don’t feel like I have to defend why I like it. A lot of my friends like violent movies and I don’t. I hate violence. But I’m not going to force my friends to explain why they like those movies. Hip-hop is just something that I like. Wu-Tang Forever! Hey can the Black lips join in our interview?

DI: Sure. I like Wu-Tang as well, especially Liquid Swords… But I’m drawn to it for some very specific reason, and I wonder why you like Wu-Tang so much.

Bradford: Because of the production, the talent and sheer charisma….

[Cole Alexander and Joe Bradley from the Black Lips enter the circle of chairs in the alley where the interview is taking place].

Cole Alexander: The RZA is always on-point.

Joe Bradley: It’s like Jay-Z but Wu-Tang is talented and they don’t bring all the bullshit!

Cole: I like how you hear a lot of weird, ethereal music in the background.

Moses: There’s a great balance of street smarts.

Bradford: Yes, they’re total savants.

Cole: They’re pseudo-intellectual in a cool way. They talk about weird philosophies…

Bradford: Yes, and they completely shaped my idea of sampling.

Cole: Yes, looping, sampling and fidelity.

Bradford: Right, everything sounds cob-webbed. The piano samples are out of tune. It’s eerie…

Cole: Right, and on Wu-Tang Forever there is a theme. There are violin samples throughout the entire album to give it an actual thickness of sound. They sound like Chinese violins, or something.

Moses: Yes, and I like how there aren’t any real bass lines, but there’s just kind of these big booms all the way through the songs.

Bradford: I just like how it’s dirty. It’s under produced; it’s punk.

DI: You like more hip-hop than just Wu-Tang, right?

Bradford: I like Lil’ Wayne, Public Enemy, Dr. Octagon, but a lot of his stuff is bullshit… Jeru the Damaja.

Collin: Old Mobb Deep.

Cole: And you’ve gotta give a shout to Triple Six. They’re the only thing that comes close to Wu-Tang.

Bradford: I want to be more informed on the gay, New Orleans hip-hop scene.

Cole: You mean like Katey Red? He’s like famous. He’s a drag queen. He talks about how much dick he can suck and he gets like respect in the hood!

Bradford: There is something that I don’t like…

DI: What’s that?

Bradford: I can’t think of it.

DI: So what did you think about that MTV mini-documentary for which both the Black Lips and Deerhunter were interviewed?

Bradford: I thought it was neat. My parents got to see it and it was a big deal for them. I was pissed about one thing very much. They cropped Lockett out of a shot. That’s inexcusable. There was one Web site that wrote about us and they cropped everyone out of the shot except for me… I don’t like that. The band is the band. Obviously it’s easy to focus on the front person, and I’m weird looking.

DI: Yeah, but the rest of these guys are just kind of looking at their shoes when you play.

Bradford: True, but they’re equal parts of the equation. I have my own solo music. Deerhunter is not the Bradford show.

Moses: I think the MTV thing voiced the same thing that I said about Atlanta, as far as everyone knowing each other. There is an idea of there being a scene here, but there really isn’t. We all come from the same city so there is that thread of continuity.

Bradford: The only thing that I worry about is people riding other people’s coat tales. I worry about property values going up… Just the general feeling that Atlanta will be like the next Williamsburg and all of these people will move here.

Moses: There’s that, and I have no idea who Manchester Orchestra is?

Bradford: Yes, I have no idea who the fuck they are…

DI: I have seen them and heard the CD, and it’s not terrible. But I think they were a strange addition to that documentary.

Moses: I thought they were talking about Manheim Steamroller or something.

DI: I thought it was a strange choice. Maybe someone like the Selmanaires or the Carbonas would have been more appropriate, but Manchester Orchestra is a living working band who is supposedly from Atlanta right now, and by all accounts they are working hard.

Cole: But hey, you know I saw Sonic Youth on the same kind of MTV segment in high school and I went out and bought their CD because of it, so that’s kind of a cool thing to be on there now.

Bradford: I saw the same Sonic Youth news segment, too.

DI: So I met this girl inside the house today who is down here from St. Louis. She was talking about what the music scene is like in St. Louis, and that they couldn’t do a Burn To Shine there, because there aren’t enough good bands to warrant one. That makes me think that even in Atlanta, as recently as three to five years ago we couldn’t have done one here, because no one gave a shit about what was going on in Atlanta. Now all of the sudden we have this huge scene here and the rest of the country is drooling over it…

Cole: True.

Bradford: Culture wanes and waxes. There is a bizarre situation here in Atlanta, especially with the suburbs where we all came from: Dunwoody and Marietta. We’re just this group of kids, us and the Black Lips, bonding over the same things. It’s not that common. Our generation had a lot of culture to digest. And right now culture is waning again. When me and Cole were in high school we were seeing Sonic Youth on MTV. Weezer was corporate. Now kids see My Chemical Romance. In general culture is totally a void right now… A big bloated void.

Collin: Yes. People aren’t really interested in exploring the underground right now.

Bradford: I blame emo. The current culture is lacking primitive energy and hooks. When we were on tour and scanning the radio stations we just heard all of this over compressed garbage that is being passed off as “alternative music.” There are no hooks. It’s not good music. There’s no personality and that’s why people are giving attention to Atlanta. Our personalities aren’t maskable. I’m not going to be able to pull off any bullshit. But I also think that us or the Black Lips will never get really huge. I don’t think we’ll ever fully cross over because we’re not diluted enough.

Cole: Right and there is a really huge R&B and soul scene here, so the spotlight was on Atlanta long before Deerhunter and the Black Lips came along.

Bradford: I grew up in Athens in the fall out of Athens’ popularity. It started out with the B-52s and then REM came along and eclipsed the B-52s. And then suddenly there were just so many bands – there were some jewels in there – but there was so much shit. So many people riding on other people’s coat tales. Matthew Sweet, the Butthole Surfers… Even though I love the Butthole Surfers they moved to Athens to try to break out. That’s not what I want to see. I don’t want to see a bunch of bullshit, you know. I don’t want my rent to go up because this is supposedly some sort of cultural Mecca. And like today. They are tearing this house down to build some sort of bourgeois-ass fucking mixed-use condo bullshit… Do we need another Borders? I’m not one of those anti-corporate complainers, but I have no interest in being part of scene that becomes incestuous and boring.

DI: What would you like to see happen?

Bradford: I just want to be left alone, do my own thing and hang around with my friends. The Black Lips are my friends. Maybe another band will come along that I can relate to…

Moses: By all historical accounts, no wave lasts for too long. There is ebb and flow and we’re not even really that concerned about it.

Bradford: I just wish I could cum.

Moses: Maybe you should talk to Mayor Shirley Franklin about that…

Bradford: Shirley Franklin, please make me cum.

Chad Radford is an independent music journalist and founder of Ponce De Leon records. He can be reached at chadrad@bellsouth.net.